Source: Ex-Mormon Claims Joseph Smith Naturally Wrote the Book of Mormon... Here's his argument. Channel: RestoredTruth Published: May 14, 2026 | Archived: June 13, 2026
Video: Ex-Mormon Claims Joseph Smith Naturally Wrote the Book of Mormon... Here's his argument.
Channel: RestoredTruth
Published: May 14, 2026
Duration: 47:24
Views: 7,950
Category: Entertainment
Video ID: 55XOrjNu9uw
Description
Part 1/2 Coming y'alls way of an argument that we will most likely see start to be focused on by the exmo community and that is a naturalistic way Joseph created the book of Mormon. Enjoy y'all.
Ex-Mormons love to claim Joseph Smith simply made up the Book of Mormon, that he was smart enough, creative enough, and clever enough to produce it all on his own. But when you actually dig into the evidence, the naturalistic explanation raises more questions than it answers. In this video, we walk through the best arguments an exmo has against Joseph Smith as the natural author of the Book of Mormon and examine whether they actually hold up under scrutiny.
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Transcript — YouTube panel (human-authored)
0:02 I saw a pillar of light and and it are extractor. Are you really saying that literature was a cheap commodity back in the 1830s? 1830s? Yes, it was. Re what? Yeah, they cost a dollar to $1.75, which is several hundred back then. So every it was everywhere. If you don't think here here's the here's the thing. Okay, you we can argue over the economics of it, but it was like there's bookstores, there's libraries, there's there's knowledge that's in this area, the Middle East and in the burned over district. Everybody it's called the burned over district because everybody every person was converted. There was every person was involved in these discussions. So it's not just like oh just some people at Harvard University having theological discussions. No, the burned over district is the entire community was was discussing, debating, talking about stuff. It was like Tik Tok. It was exactly like Tik Tok. And people talked about it and they had different books.
1:18 They had all kinds of books. Um and they had theologians like they had theologian level people debating Harvard um professors like Cotton Mather. They had they had a big debate between the the the thing is and everybody hated the flipping Calvinists cuz the Calvinists were from Harvard and they were the smartest Bible script. They were the Calvinists were like restored truth like trying to argue with restored truth. He had the answer to everything, you know, he had everything memorized. And so the these learned Calvinists and so everybody who needed to argue against the Calvinist, how the heck did that happen? You were talking about him and he just comes right in. He [laughter] manifested. He manifested.
2:05 Manifested. Manifest. I I just still don't you would have to go and demonstrate evidence that Joe Joe Smith was going to these libraries on a consistent basis to go and studies these things up and to go and be able to go and understand it. Like the thing that we would you would have to go and demonstrate to me is knowing what Joseph Smith's IQ was and if it was like astronomatically large here I'll I'll demonstrate that he had unique books. You would demonstrate that you would that he had unique books and that he was able to read them and understand them before. I'll demonstrate he had unique books.
2:46 This this is all we're talking about. Restored restored. All we're talking a double standard though. All we're talking about it was a gift by God. There you go. And and they're saying it he couldn't have possibly had any of these books. And the evidence I'm giving, we're talking about the Book of Mormon, not the Book of Abraham. You're the one that shifted. No, this is the same topic cuz because it it describes the region. It describes the region. Exactly. What they're saying is Joseph Smith.
3:16 When when did the Book of Abraham come into play? Yeah. Like 1834, 1835. Okay. When was the Book of Mormon published? Yeah. 1820 1820 1830. It wasn't 1829. Was it published in 1829? Yeah, if I'm correct on that, I believe March 1830. March 1830. Mhm. Yeah, it was completed in 1829. Correct. Yeah. Translation is correct. It wasn't 29. No, but this this argument of Joseph that the land of the the [clears throat] lay of the land though has nothing to do with the Book of Mormon in reference to the Book of Abraham. That's That's like what?
3:58 No, we're we're talking about the Book of Mormon restored. Not not I know, but he shifted to Egyptian scrolls. Yeah. I don't know why you're proving No, they're saying they're whole. No, you're shifting because you are shifting to the Book of Abraham. My entire contention is how in the world did Joseph Smith able to go and write or understand and fabricate the Book of Mormon with the resources he would have had before he wrote the Book of Mormon?
4:25 That's my contention. Okay. So, did Joseph Smith have So, what I'm saying is you're saying Joseph Smith wasn't somebody interested in unique and foreign and obscure texts. And I'm saying in 1835, he's got legitimate Egyptian Egyptian papyrus. Yeah, that's that's after you'd have to go and demonstrate his fascination before writing the Book of Mormon. All right. Okay, fine. It's He's a totally different human in 1835 than he was in 18 1829. Okay.
4:57 What What are you talking about? Yeah, people people do change after like years afterwards of stuff, right? No, but but you have to acknowledge that there Wait, wait, wait. No, no. That is a horrible idea of studying. You don't go to 1835 to then read that back into history. That's That's dumb. You're you're making a guess that has no basis in re in like evidence at all. It's like me viewing the world today and then reading how we view the world today and and trying to shove that into 20 2000.
5:31 So you're saying in the dumb in western New York in Ohio there's no books. Bunch of dumb country hicks in 1830. But then somehow by 1835, oh there's enough interest. Oh my gosh. In this area that they're not the guy's name Chambers whole business model. Extractor extractor. Can you just prove the point that you came up here to prove about the Book of Mormon without going to the Book of Abraham?
6:04 We're on the same topic. Restored. We're on the same topic. We're on the same topic. It is the same topic. We're talking about saying you're not. That's incorrect. extractor. I keep asking you like how do you have evidence that he had access to this information before writing the Book of Mormon and was he studying it and was he did he buy books and did he go to the library to go and study up on this material to prepare for the Book of Mormon to write it? That's my entire contention.
6:31 No, that's that's not what you So, first of all, what I'm saying don't straw me. What I'm saying is there was a ton of knowledge in Joseph Smith's area. So, and this started with the idea the what? So, so extractor, I agree with you that there were people that were professors around Joseph Smith. That doesn't mean Joseph Smith was a professor. The problem is is that Egyptian scholarship was so new that there's no way that Joseph Smith would have had that much access to that kind of scholarship. [snorts] There's no way. Wait, why are we on the Book of Abraham still? We're talking about the Book of Mormon.
7:10 You have to prove that he didn't have access. That's what I'm saying. Martin Harris. Yeah, I can. No, wait. In 1829, Martin Harris in 1829 had access to Egyptian scholars. Oh my god. 1829. Don't go to Dartmouth. Martin No. Martin Harris. No, Martin Harris went to Anthon. He just walked over. He's like, "Oh, we need to verify some Egyptian hieroglyphics. [laughter] Do I need to go to Egypt?" Oh, wait. Do I need to get on a boat and go to Egypt and to find an Egyptolo? No, he just walked over. There was an Egyptologist.
7:43 Yeah. What was the guy's name? Anon. We know his name. And that's the thing that I'm saying, you guys. What was his degree? He he was a linguist. He was like Egypt. I mean, Middle Eastern studies, different languages. What What did he do his discourse on? I don't know. Anon Charles. Is that who you're talking about? Yeah, Charles Anon. Okay. So, you have no idea about who this hold up.
8:10 These didn't have anything in in 1830 and then it's like, "Oh, wait. What are you talking in? Why are we on the Book of Abraham when we're talking about the Book of Mormon?" Extractor, do you not understand the argument I'm making or my contention? Exos can't realize they can't get away from the Book of Abraham because they think it's a silver bullet when it's not. My contention is is that how can a man like Joseph Smith are you saying that Joseph Smith has an IQ of like 140 or like above 100 like 120? Is that your is that what you're saying right now?
8:49 I'm I'm Yeah, I'm saying he was a he was a brilliant guy. Yeah, I'm saying that. So, so you're saying he had a huge IQ that he was able that he was able to retain all this information that uh he was going to while he wasn't busy majority of the time doing farm work since back in the day farm work was very very crucial to one's survival and so he was able to go and retain all this information to go and create the Book of Mormon. Do you do you agree that a lot can be learned by going to lectures and by discussing things?
9:25 You would have to go and provide in like evidence that he uh was a genius in that regard like he was he was able to go and study all these books, go and retain all this information and just go and able Yeah. The evidence is the Book of Mormon has some very general. The Book of Mormon isn't specific. It's not PhD level knowledge of the Middle East. In fact, it's very surface. In fact, the evidence in the Book of Mormon shows he didn't really understand very much of Jewish culture because it didn't it didn't give details about things Joseph might not have known about like like the actual details of Mosaic ritual.
10:07 Yeah. [laughter] What are you doing? No, the references example. What's an example extractor? Extractor is it's a thousand years of Nephites supposedly performing uh Mosaic law rituals and it's like yeah different than which which what is the year that they would have wish what is the year that they would have uh taken those traditions? Yeah. 600 BC. Okay. What was the tradition? What was the traditions 600 BC in the biblical text? What were those traditions like?
10:42 Yeah. I I would like I would like the details. Yeah. Well, you're making the you would you should know. You're making the claim. Yeah. Yeah. My claim is where's one specific detail? Show me in the Bible the distinction. 600 years. You're saying that there is a detail missing. Now you're telling us that you don't know if there is one missing. You're just you're just making a claim without any really substanti substantiation on it.
11:07 No, I'm saying no. You're trying No, no, listen. Listen. You're make I'm following your discussion defender, which you're trying to make me say Joseph Smith was a PhD, uh, you know, 120 IQ. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that is what you're saying, though. No, what I'm what I'm saying is that there there is knowledge available in 1830 1820 upstate New York that religion there wasn't football or Tik Tok or or you know TV to watch the pastime of the day was debating and discussing discussing religion and in fact it was extra it was part he was in part of the second great awakening and he so he was not only in one of the greatest times of religious discussion he was in the greatest location the greatest American location the burned over district it's almost like it's almost like God forordained Joseph Smith to be in the best position [clears throat] possible to carry out a work for him to do there was theologians and there was professors that were completely wrong.
12:25 Misinformation in that regard, right? And they're all debating and discussing just his environment. Listen, all I'm saying I'm saying is where did participate in that when he was 14? How was Joseph Smith parsing out all this information and getting all the correct facts of the matter and not getting any of the misinformation of the matters? Like my my thing is when we talk about Egyptian scholarship specifically, it was so young in the 30s. Like it it was so well they don't even know enough today, dude.
13:00 Yeah. Like it they're so far behind on Egyptian writings and um just Egyptian uh what is it? There's like a correct word for it. It's like the middle of the pyramids. Like the the design and the writings within those they don't even know like they have no idea. And it's not like back then it was taught in universities. You're not in America. You're complaining that these large descriptions of Hebraic um laws and customs were not in the Book of Mormon.
13:34 Why did they need to be? They were they were golden plates. It was precious real estate. They had the brass plates that already contained that information. Why in the world would they think to use this precious real estate on these plates to regurgitate something that was already an exodus? Yep. Help [snorts] me. Uh Glenn, I was just responding I was just responding to uh defender saying he he was trying to say that I'm saying like Joseph Smith was like a doctorate of Hebrew or something. I'm not saying that. And I used as an example that it wasn't doctorate level because you don't see doctorate level Jewish culture in the Book of Mormon.
14:14 What? What are you talking about? You don't see that in the Bible either. I I'm I'm all I'm saying is that you're saying that Hold up. Hold up. Hold up. You don't see that anywhere within the biblical text. No, I'm Listen, I'm not That's You guys are derailing from I'm not derailing. I'm I'm proving a point. You don't see that anywhere. Where do they define the distinction in the biblical text between first and second temple Judaism extractor?
14:42 Yeah, the Mosaic law has a lot of details. No, where does that define the difference in the Mosaic law? What is the difference? Tell me where in the Bible, what's the difference between first and second temple Judaism? And where does the Bible demonstrate the the the differences? Okay. All right. You're picking something. I'm giving you an example. I'm picking something very specific cuz we're focusing on specifics, not generalizing, just random statements like you've been.
15:09 So, here's a specific. There's whole books like in Deuteronomy that that talk about the Mosaic law. Okay. Okay. Temple period is the details that's temple period. Okay. First temple. Yeah. So, yeah. And where does the Bible distinguish the differences? There's lots of detail and then answering the question Nephite. There's not one Nephite prophet. You're not answering the question.
15:39 Where is the distinction within the biblical text that it demonstrates the distinctions between first temple Judaism and second? Where does the Bible demonstrate that? How does this have anything to do with the books? We're talking about details. You're picking a random detail out of the Bible. It's not a random detail. showing your crappy double stand of Mormon. No, extractor, you're extractor, you're the one who brought that. They left before the You're the one that brought details and I'm just showing how your bad position about this whole Joseph Smith falls completely with the Bible.
16:16 That's so that's not even related. That is not even related cuz they left before second, I agree with you that it's not related because you're the one who brought it into the conversation. You're the one who's just derailing this conversation by introducing, hey, how come Joseph Smith didn't know these details or adamant to the Book of Mormon? I've said three times, let's move on from that comment. You guys are not stay here. So, you're derailing. I'm not derailing.
16:39 No, you literally just brought up the difference. What are you talking about? No, you guys want to stay on this difference. I have said three times. Just be clear who's derailing here. I've said three times. Okay, move on from that claim. Okay. So, you you conceded your position, [laughter] right? Wait, wait. What I'm concerned conceded your position. Joseph wasn't a PhD. Yes. Concede.
17:05 No, no, no. You're you're also conceding that the Book of Mormon did not need to have the the level of details that you're trying to have it because neither did the Bible. That's what you're going to concede as well, right? No, because I would say Deuteronomy had a lot of details about the law of Moses that aren't in the book of What details? What details? You want me to read Deuteronomy? No, I've read it all. What details?
17:27 Like the the specific laws like the the clothing laws. The What are the clothing laws? Yeah. Tell me where there's food restrictions. What are the clothing laws? You can't have mixed You can't have mixed cloth. It describes the tassels. You can't have mixed cloth. It describes tassels that you're supposed to have. It describes now. [clears throat] Now tassels. Yeah. And in the Book of Mormon, let's follow your logic. Let's follow your logic.
17:55 Why does the Book of Mormon need that detail? No. No. Let's Let's go. Yeah. No, here. Hold on. Let me flip Deuteronomy. Let me flip over to Deuteronomy. I've read it all. I know, but I don't have it all memorized. I just want to go through the detail that's in Deuteronomy. I know the detail that you're referencing. The question then begs, why does the Book of Mormon need to have that detail when there's two separate plates?
18:20 Well, because what it shows is is No, you're misrepresenting what the purpose of the Book of Mormon is. They had that detail. If the brass plates had the detail of all that on there, then that would have shown that would have showed up in the book of No, it wouldn't. It wouldn't. Have you not read First Nephi? It'd be super. It'd be like, wait, hold up. Have you not read the first book of Nephi? Extractor. Yeah, I've never read it.
18:50 When was the last time you read it? Because this this whole argument is mute if you actually read it and understood it. Yeah, they had the brass plates. Again, what does First Nephi say specifically is the point of the Book of Mormon? Okay, tell me what point you're making. It's on the title page. It says to prove. No, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about in the Book of Mormon, in First Nephi, it demonstrates the purpose of what is going on the plates compared to what isn't. Yeah. Okay. There's a whole book there. Now, what is that purpose?
19:32 We know that there's a second plates that were historic. So the mosaic the Book of Mormon answer the Mosaic law which they said they followed. You're saying that's exactly what I'm saying. That's exactly what should be No, you you're not listening. Can I can I try? There there are there are two sets of plates. One has historical probably what you're wanting and the second has divine inspiration and guidance specifically for the nourishment of the soul.
20:10 Oh, so temple. So, so temple worship and and how temple worship. So, yeah, it's like they went to the temple. No, it's it's specifically designated and found within the Book of Mormon. You just have to read it. There's not detail. No. No. Yeah. Go read Mosaiah chapter 1 through5. No. Sorry. Jeff. Yeah, of course you won't because again, you're ignorant on all of this. Jeff, what did you want to say? I was trying to write this all together.
20:41 So, so just want to I want to make sure I understand Extractor's claim today. So, Extractor, your your claim is that Joseph had access to books and libraries where he researched all the information that is in the Book of Mormon to to to construct the Book of Mormon. Is that correct? So, close, Jeff. Close. What I'm saying is the burned over district, what I'm saying is it's a straw man to say it is a This is what I'm saying. It is a straw man to say Joseph was a dumb dumb farm boy who all he did was plow fields and how could he have possibly that's what that's why I came up here came up here I defender has said that before this defender has said multiple times he was so busy trying to go he was so busy how could he ever have time to talk learn religion that's the I'm saying he didn't have distractor My entire argument is that he wouldn't have had access as readily as we do today. Do you agree?
21:47 But that doesn't that Do you agree? Yeah. He didn't have the internet. But I'm explaining to you I'm explaining to you that they were highly educated. They were highly educated. [clears throat] Extractor. Was Joseph Smith smarter than you? Probably. I never built a What a thousand of people brother miss a dog. Yeah, hold on. Chuck, let me You should probably follow him again instead of following biblical prophets that that he's a dumb dumb distractor. He had three years of schooling. That's what we're saying.
22:26 And that's the whole that's the whole point is you're trying to minimize how smart he was. You're trying to minimize how much because we're saying that he had limited education. That doesn't mean he wasn't smart. Extra extractor. My entire argument is that he didn't have access to the he probably was smart, but he didn't have access to information as readily as he should. And then in 1835, he has genuine Egyptian papyrus in his hands.
22:52 There's I know it's so annoying because there's all this way back in circle, guys. We're going back in circle. It's It's all over. It's all over. And you guys are like a library and then he has Egyptian papyrie in his hands in Okay, hold up. Chill. You keep running. Can you stick on one point? This is what we call a gish gallop fallacy. I I'm I'm trying to get him to to to I'm trying to get him to This is what we call a glazing Joseph Smith.
23:26 Yeah. Hold on. I'm trying to I'm trying to get flesh out his his I know, but I'm trying to get him to flesh out what his claim is and what his argument is so I can His claim is like everyone else. Joseph Smith was smart enough to produce the Book of Mormon. Jeff, that's his point. No, I I get that. So So let me please can I can I just try and run down the the thought process with him real quick because you guys are going in circles and it's kind of it's not getting anywhere. I don't feel like I get like we're just like no no yes yes. So extractor, so you're so so if I grant you if if I grant you your argument that Joseph Smith had access and these were these were highly intelligent people and they he had the resources that to to to construct the Book of Mormon. Your other claim on top of that was that he didn't the Book of Mormon is flawed because he he didn't bring he didn't put in information about Jewish culture and customs for the Hebrew law
24:22 and the law of Moses that he that that should be in the Book of Mormon. Is that correct? Because Extractor says so. There's no real because he says I know I know I know but I want to make sure I want to make sure I'm not misrepresenting his argument. Extractor, you're muted. I don't know if he I don't know if he's if he knows he's muted. Oh, I didn't know I was mute. Um, sorry, Jeeoff, that to me that's a distraction.
24:48 I tried to get away from that cuz I was like, I know I know I'd like to address it. Missing Jewish culture in the Book of Mormon. That's why that's a separate issue, but I would I would like to address it. So that that was also your claim that there's missing Jewish culture and and the law and the Mosaic law is not very well fleshed out and it kind of proves that Joseph Smith didn't have that knowledge. Is that what you said?
25:09 Yeah. All right. So my my question then is if he had access to all these books and all these resources, did he not have access to the Mosaic law and and the details of the Mosaic law? Well, he tells you why. He tells you, haven't you read the Book of Mor restored? Haven't you read the Book of Mormon? It tells you why they didn't really make a big deal. Not you. But you thought you contradicted your own claim.
25:33 Tell me. Tell me in second Nephi. Where does it explain why I didn't say I love I love the crash. You just contradicted your own claim. You contradicted yourself. So you're saying that it's okay that it doesn't have those details. Well, hold on. But but what I'm saying is that he had he these were highly intelligent people. He had all the access to all these things including we would think the the information for the Mosaic law and Deuteronomy and all the information and all the details for it. So he should have had those, right? But you but one of your claims is that Joseph Smith didn't have that knowledge and it's apparent in the Book of Mormon why he that because it's so it's not detailed enough about the Mosaic law that he didn't have that knowledge.
26:15 Why if if he had all this time to construct this and make this make this so foolproof so that way he could he why would he not include those details and and and be as precise as possible? You can't have it both ways. You can't say, "Oh, well, he was super educated and super knowledgeable about all these niche things, but then he didn't have this information, but he didn't but he didn't add all these other niche things in there, even though he had would have had access to those things, too. So, if he had access to all those things, why would he not include them all in there to bolster the claim that he knows what he's talking about? And the book is the book is true.
26:51 Well, we know he didn't we actually know he didn't have that knowledge at the time he wrote the Book of Mormon because he hired a Jewish teacher to teach him Hebrew in like 1836. Yeah. The Book of Mormon was published, right? Yeah. So, I'm saying he didn't have it in 1830. Yeah. So in 1827, he had access to all the books. Why not? He had access to all the books and all the knowledge. Yeah. Extractor. He also had Deuteronomy in English.
27:20 He was highly and he was [laughter] highly intelligent. Wait, I just love how he's contradicting his own position. That's my favorite thing in the world. This has been my entire argument. [laughter] You're saying that it's readily available to him before he wrote the Book of Mormon and he's smart enough to go and retain all this information. He You were saying he had access to that Jewish teacher beforehand. So why didn't he use it before he wrote the Book of Mormon? That's what I'm saying.
27:48 He didn't have the access to the resources or the time to before he wrote the Book of Mormon is what I'm saying because he was a farm boy and he was not educated and he had other things that he had to go and worry about and focus on. See what I'm restored? He just said it again. He's a farm boy. Farm boy. Farm. Farm boy. When I say farm boy, I'm not saying he's dumb. You're the one who's attributing farm boy to dumb.
28:14 I'm saying a farm boy has more important priorities to worry about. Yeah. The the the the claim that someone is uneducated doesn't make doesn't automatically assume that they're dumb. Right. Right. Yes, we agree. Then then what's your Let's just move on cuz he contradicted himself on his own. Let's Let's do the next topic. Like that's my favorite point. He literally contradicted himself. Okay.
28:43 [laughter] Hold on. And he knows it. And he knows it. Also, okay, let me let me let me just tell you where I want this live. I did flip-flop. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. I did flip-flop on that. Here's here's what I want to say. Flip quick, bro. [laughter] No. Here's here's what I was cuz you restored. Sometimes you get people flustered. Uh, here's what here's what I was going to say is I do think I here's here's what I I think is I don't think he was super educated in in Jewish culture in the the late 1820s, right?
29:19 Because you don't see like a deep rich you don't see those details. And if he if he knew him and I of course I'm coming to it from a naturalistic view. I know that just that's that's my thing. it he didn't know it in late 1820s and so you don't see it and the framework that he had in the Book of Mormon it tells you that which actually is a really interesting view where it says we kept the law of Moses but we knew we absolutely knew that it it pointed us to Christ right so yes I'm gonna I am confl conflicting two things because on the one hand I'm saying he should have known it but then on the other And I I'm also acknowledging the text says why it wouldn't have been in there cuz it's because they could have said yeah this law of Moses thing it's yeah it's it's something we do but we're really looking forward to Jesus. Does that make sense?
30:14 Like that is I agree that I have here's the problem I have extractor is that you're looking at the Book of Mormon and he's like okay this is what Joseph Smith had to have studied before he wrote it. Now the the thing is is that you're making the claim that he had to go and study these things before he wrote it. You have to substantiate how he got that material and how he went and studied it and who he went to to gain all that information because you're saying he didn't uh get a Jewish culture. He didn't study it very well.
30:44 So that's why it's not in the Book of Mormon. So now you have to go and say where he did get the information and study it to write it into the Book of Mormon. You're saying that because it's in the Book of Mormon, he must have studied it beforehand. Now substantiate that with who he went to and where he got it from. So So I can I can So the his concept of the Book of Mormon comes from native culture and that comes from the whole missionary culture. The bas what based on like what documentation he was referring to? Was he talking to people?
31:20 Is there documentation of him talking to those native people and enjoying those stories? Yeah, there was a reservation at his favorite fishing spot. Like he was a reservation there doesn't mean it wasn't a it was like it was like identified as a place all the bro extractor dude you are pulling out straws. Yeah right in Palmyra see Palmyra was on the it was like on the edge. I just I just want wait can can I just say something? I want everyone listening.
31:57 This is the length you have to go to when you've already received a witness of the Book of Mormon and you've denied it over and over and over and over again because you don't want to accept the witness that it isn't natural. It is divinely inspired. This is the level of mental gymnastics that you have to go to. I want everyone to hear this. No. What you need, what everyone needs.
32:21 What everyone needs to hear, that's what they're hearing from you. No, what everyone needs to hear is that you The defense here is that Joseph I'm not defending anything. You're doing it for me. No, the defense is is that you guys don't understand what 1830 New York was like. That's the issue. No extractor. No. No. Cuz every time you have to go, you have to go on substantial. How did he have books and then 18? They're just out in I never said that.
32:48 And then in 1830 he's holding genuine Egyptian papyrie. He's got Oh my gosh. Just address something like freaking 18 I'm talking about preook of Mormon. Holy crap, dude. Stop going to freaking after post Book of Book of Mormon. Holy crap, dude. It's his mental gymnastics. He has to go to the Book of Abraham era. He has to. Like here's the thing that's bugging me so much. You go to things that's after the Book of Mormon, but nothing before the Book of Mormon to substantiate your claim of, "Oh, yeah, he has these resources.
33:22 Give me a documented thing pre of Mormon of him getting these documents, studying them, understanding stuff, and going learning from people." Just waiting for the late war. When are you going to talk about that? Uh, yeah. Everybody believed that. See, that's an that that tells me you don't understand the 18 early American. No. What are you talking about? The Because do you think the late war is Do you think that that guy was the only person who thought that the Native Americans were Israelites?
33:56 No. No. It was a very prominent belief. Yeah. Yeah. It was a So view of the view of the Hebrews and the That's horrible, too. They're just all they're doing is showing Oh my god. It's just showing how many how many tribes of Israel came over to uh ancient America in view of the Hebrews? I don't know. How many I don't I don't even need I'm not even using View of the Hebrews as a source.
34:26 Okay. So So you can see View of the Hebrews wasn't used. No view of the Hebrews is is evidence that of the culture. The fact that somebody again culture has nothing to do with it because if the evidence if the if the whole issue let me tell you what let me tell you what I'm saying the whole issue is you want to say let me tell you what I'm saying and his I never said that extractor.
34:55 Okay. So stop putting words in my mouth. Okay. Okay. So if the environment influenced him then he would have got things wrong because view of the Hebrews is incorrect about the tribes of Israel coming across the barren straight extract. Uhoh. Uhoh. If this is a major belief, how is he not using this major belief in the Book of Mormon? Cuz he's he's incorrect with this because view of the Hebrews says something completely different than what's in the Book of Mormon.
35:24 Yeah. Sh, you you missed my point when I said how come he's pulling all the correct information but none of the misinformation of his culture. It's if it's so readily available, the misinformation of his culture would have also been readily available. Again, you're not you don't know how the 1830 second great awakening fully understood a lot of these concepts, but Joseph Smith didn't use those concepts.
35:51 Yeah, he did. the bar and the way that they believed it. Nobody. Yeah. There was there was like a dozen different concepts of how they possibly could. They were just hypothesizing and floating all these different ideas. That's why he doesn't have just one mental gymnastics. Dude, it's hilarious. Here's the What's hilarious is you want to take Joseph Smith out of everything in his environment. You just want to say I just want to say no. He he had no influence books. He had no influence in by the You have to demonstrate how he used that accessibility. That's my contention. You have not given a one substantial evidence to prove that he was using these accessible resources you are saying that he had.
36:36 Well, again, you brought up you brought up View of the Hebrews. Let's go there. What did he pull from View of the Hebrews? Chuck, I have not. You're I have not put View of the Hebrews as a You brought it up. No, you brought it. Chuck, look at the tape. You brought it up. You brought Wait, hold up, guys. Did I say View of the Hebrews first or did Extractor? Extractor. You You threw out [laughter] View the Hebrews in late war.
37:04 No, I threw out late war. You You said you the Hebrews. Okay, you brought it up. I'm not I'm not move away. Yeah, just move away. View of the Hebrews wasn't it? Okay, cool. Thanks. Yeah. No, I don't need View of the Hebrews cuz let's go. Late war. No, I I don't need those texts. I don't need those text. Okay. So, Joseph Smith. Okay. Okay. So, you can see both of those. Okay. Resuck [clears throat] [laughter] Because Chuck, they're teaching.
37:36 They're teaching. Let's go to the next book. Let's go to the next book. What book do you I've read them all. What book do you want to go to? They're teaching grade school kids that I understand what they're teaching is Yeah. They're teaching it to grade school kids in grammar school. It's textbooks in New York. No, no, no. Again, what book do you want to go to next? You've conceded those two books. What's the next one? Okay. Um, let's go to How about this?
38:07 How about something that shows up? Let's go to the next book. Okay. Come on. Next book. Come on. What's the next book? I'm deciding whether we we can go through 40 of them. What's the next book? So, this was my point. This is my point and I've proven it is that Joseph Smith was You contradicted yourself one and then you're just spewing a bunch of nonsense. No, the my whole point for coming up here and you derailed me on the Jewish stuff in the Book of Mormon, which I think is is a solid point, but the point is is Joseph there was a wealth of knowledge in Joseph Smith's environment.
38:51 The fact that in 1835 he has very unique going to 1835, right? So, and and that's the thing you guys are being like, "Oh, sure. Sure, he had ancient documents in 1835, but there's no way he would have had any interest in Oh my gosh. He didn't read books. Address the argument of pre preook of Mormon. Stop shifting. Yeah. And so most of what he has is a remix of the misunderstandings of Indian culture of his day. And you can find the documents where the theology greatly comes from.
39:30 Extractor. Here's the problem. You haven't demonstrated that at all. All you've said is, "Well, this is what I say." You haven't given me a single source of preook of Mormon document documentation or a teacher or professor or somebody he went to before he wrote the Book of Mormon to go and get this information. You're just saying, "Well, he was near it, so he must have done it." That's like me being next to the carnival, so it's like, "Hey, the carnival's in town. You must have went to the carnival." was like, "No, that's not proof that I went to the carnival."
40:03 Have you read Colby Townsen's um comparison of the edits of Yes, I have. Have you have you read the the edit? Kobe Colby is just a bigot in his in his referencing. So KBY Townsen has has shown that that the the chapters of Isaiah in the Book of Mormon are not exact copies. They don't match the Dead Sea Scrolls. Yeah, we know that. We know that. There's a reason for that. So, when you compare the edits that Wait, you know that there's a reason for that, right?
40:33 Hold on. Hold on. There's When you compare the Wait, you know that there's a reason for that, right? We we we've known this for way before Kobe was even alive. What? So, when you compare the edits, it matches up with many of the changes that Adam Clark made. And so again again we know the issues of the changes and we also understand why because if you read second Nephi it tells you that's what Colby doesn't want you to know extractor why that that explanation doesn't make sense to me what makes sense to me again there is something called revelation that exists Robert Boland has written a dis has written a a response letter to Col's dumb argument and absolutely blows it out of the water. Have you read it?
41:31 No, I I actually didn't realize that Boland did. I read Jackson's discussion about some of the use of it, but Boland has done probably one of the most extensive works on the writings of Isaiah in the Book of Mormon than probably anyone that I that I know. Yeah, I'll read it. I'll read it. I didn't know about it till now. But the point that you're saying, defender, defender, I think you wanted evidence. I would point you to KBY Townsen, which says that that that Joseph likely used Adam Clark. We also know that through some of the changes in the Joseph Smith translation that he used Adam Clark in the JST.
42:10 No. And so, no, Adam Clark is not a good for you. Right around use argument. No, I I'm not. That's BYU research. Extract. I understand. I understand has researched Adam Clark and I also understand they've attributed something to Adam Clark, but the lack of evidence to substantiate that is the issue here. So again, so he started he started translating the Bible. So now I've moved it back to 1831 where he did have Adam Clark and commentaries and and that is BYU evidence that shows that Joseph was using No, you still haven't addressed my which is after the Book of Mormon.
42:52 You you here's the evidence that here's the evidence that I was asking you for is do you have documentation of Joseph Smith going and reading and studying up on this material? First off, that's my first one. My second one is him talking to these people to What's that? Adam Clark is in the text. It's in the JST. It's in the Book of Mormon. Adam Clark's in there. I'm talking pre I'm talking pre- Book of Mormon. Do you have that documentation to go and show that he's talking to these professors and going learning from them and he's pulling this information as well as he has these books that he's been reading.
43:27 Did Did Joseph Smith use Adam Clark? Yes or no? I don't know. Okay. Well, I presented Ingard cuz you're all over the place. In what regard? I don't know what kind of evidence you want. In what regard? Extractor. In what regard? He used it in the JST starting in 8. Okay. It doesn't matter. We're talking about the Book of Mormon again. I'm talking about the Book of Mormon. Dude, look at how far I've come. Look at how far I've come. You're acknledging.
43:56 You haven't provided a single iota of evidence of documentation like journal like Joseph Smith's journals or anything of anybody's journals of preook of Mormon of him talking to these professors talking to these people reading these books all you've been able to demonstrate is post Book of Mormon documentation you have not and Adam Clark Adam Clark and the writings at BYU don't even Adam Clark and the whole idea of the JST has nothing to do with the Book of Mormon. [snorts] Defender, do you know 1827, 1828, 1829?
44:32 Pick a year. 1820. Go to 1823. Actually, so the evidence so that so 18 hold on hold on let me let me say cuz I have move I have moved it into Book of Mormon. So first of all, let me say he has ancient documents in 1835 that shows he he definitely wanted and had an interest in ancient ancient documents. usage in the Book of Mormon shows he used Adam Clark in the translation of the Isaiah as well.
45:01 Where where where in Isaiah in the Book of Mormon? What chapter? Show me [clears throat] the references. I you want I'm not going to go through I want you to actually show it, not just parrot something that you don't even know. Just one example. You're going to cherrypick his work and you're going to only apply it to the Book of Mormon by which he misses by a large mark. Now, Kobe has some good critical analysis on some things. I'll give Kobe that. He's probably the best one that's actually provided something of substance within the last 120 years. Outside of that, you still don't know what his position is. You're just paring something that you heard.
45:44 Extractor, you went and said that. Hold up, defender. Mhm. So, show me where in second Nephi he is pulling this tension with Adam Clark in the translation process of the Book of Mormon. Okay. I'm not prepared. I'm just going to say I'm not prepared to go through uh piece by piece. And why are you just show me one? I don't need piece by piece. The whole restored you in this discussion what I've shown you. You've just pared evidence that you've read that you think is evidence that I have shown that the argu you're making the same argument that Jackson makes about why he disagrees of the use of Adam Clark in the JST even when I'm not even talking about the JST you're making this I'm just saying I'm just saying you're making the same argument which is there's all these things that correlate but it's not 100% so we can't know for sure and what I'm showing is a pattern.
46:44 There's a pattern here and you guys are wanting to say put it in his hand. Show me a video of Joseph reading books and going to professors. Otherwise, I've never said that once. Extractor. Um, maybe we should just have you tip your king and go on to that soloscript Torah thing. I think that I want to see that discussion [laughter] between you and restored. That would be an interesting one. I kind of like the restored truth is that God has never stopped reaching out to humanity. He continues to reveal, guide, and pursue a relationship with us today. So remember, keep your knees on the ground and your eyes towards heaven.