Source: Mormon Stories RETALIATES Against LDS Church Lawsuit with 109 Page Rebuttal | Ep.156 Channel: Latter Daily Saints Published: June 24, 2026 | Archived: June 26, 2026
Video: Mormon Stories RETALIATES Against LDS Church Lawsuit with 109 Page Rebuttal | Ep.156
Channel: Latter Daily Saints
Published: June 24, 2026
Duration: 50:28
Views: 18,100
Category: News & Politics
Video ID: y8wpwWD3ZVM
Description
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Transcript — YouTube panel (human-authored)
0:00 There are some pretty significant updates to the legal battle between the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and John Delin of Mormon Stories podcast as John and his lawyers submit their 109page answers and counter claims filing that includes a lot of different angles to try to rebut the claims of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. So much so that they even mention this show, Latter-day Saints, to try and prove one of their points. It gets pretty wild. My name is Jackson Wayne Paul and welcome to Latterday Saints.
0:31 What power shall stay the heavens from pouring down knowledge from heaven upon the heads of the Latterday Saints. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Latterday Saints. For our first time viewers, what you've stumbled upon here on the internet is a news and pop culture commentary show made by Latter-day Saints for Latter-day Saints. But visitors are indeed always welcome. And I am joined in my studio by our faithful co-host, Brando. Welcome. Ding-dong. Hello.
1:06 That was one of your worst ones. Every day is different. You don't know what you're going to get out of. Do you get the reference though? Uh the Book of Mormon story. The Book of Mormon musical. Yes. Musical. Yeah. Hey, seems relevant. Okay, it seems relevant. But uh none of us, neither I or Brandon are official representatives of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, but we love taking a look at things happening in our Latterday Saint community and in the world abroad and run our mouths on the internet about it. So, if you find value in the things that we're doing, we would ask that you hit the subscribe button as it gets it out to more people that want to look at the world through a restored gospel lens, which that is the stated goal of this channel. But ladies and gentlemen, we have a doozy of a featured story to get into today, which Brandon, if you didn't know, this show, Latter-day Saints, was mentioned in the
1:58 rebuttal to the lawsuit that the church filed against John Delin and Mormon stories. We are listed in his uh counter claims. Did you know? We just found that out this morning. We did. We did. Insane. And we had a little bit of a faith crisis, which we'll talk about. Exactly. We spiraled there first. No, just kidding. So, we're going to get into all of this, but I find it and look, some of you may disagree with this plug that I'm about to do here. But at Plain and Precious Publishing, we published a book called The Antichrist Playbook, subtitle, which is very important, a guide for young saints to avoid deception and defeat the devil. A lot of people think that it's too far for me to say that John Delin exudes some antichristlike attributes. And if you there's a lot of context that goes into that claim. I recognize some of those context clues that are or context pieces that are important uh to inform
2:53 why I say that is because Hayden and I sat down with John Dyn for a six-hour conversation that was live streamed on Mormon Stories podcast. Um and in it John Delin specifically said that the doctrine of the atonement of Jesus Christ is insidious in nature. And uh we had a very lively conversation about those statements there. And so I personally see anyone that is outwardly telling an audience that the doctrine that Jesus Christ atoned for our sins and that through his atonement we can be forgiven of wrongdoings and don't have to be defined by past mistakes and that through him we can overcome sin and physical death. Anyone that's saying that that doctrine that right there is insidious in nature and that you shouldn't uh subscribe to that I think is outwardly being an antichrist. Is that too much of a stretch, Brando?
3:50 Not only blatantly saying it, but there's kind of this wolf in sheep's clothingesque uh demeanor of John, and we'll get into some of those things today as we have in the past. But the antichrist playbook uh addresses people like this who referencing the book Cororohor and Sherim and and people in the Book of Mormon who uh subtly went after the faithful members of God's of God's church to to subtly drag them down. And so you have the mix of people being very obvious about it and some who are being subtle. We see a little bit of both with John Delin. And if you're a youth leader, young men, young women's leader, this book is for your youth. It's for you as a parent of a youth. Um it's for anyone, but specifically the youth to know how to kind of navigate these these treacherous waters.
4:41 Exactly. Because a lot of the same tactics that dare I say John Delin uses uh are found in the scriptures. And what I love about what Jeff Borders does is he uses those scriptural examples to help inform how those same tactics used thousands of years ago are mimicked today in the same people that uh try to combat I'm just going to leave that there. I'm sorry if that bothers you.
5:03 Um, and honestly, I think one thing that'll be important to help inform this as well and set the foundation of kind of John John's mentality and his worldview in our six-hour conversation, he calling the doctrine of the atonement of Jesus Christ insidious. I asked him, I said, "Okay, go God John Delin, what is the better solution?" And then he purports uh, you know, puts forth a solution of, you know, how about people they make mistakes, you teach them, and hopefully they do better. How about that? And then Hayden goes and clarifies what he's trying to say a little bit better. And this is what John says.
5:40 So, so in your scenario, it you you want a scenario where there isn't a justice for our actions. It's just everyone is saved independent of whatever mistakes they may make. Sure, that sounds better than punishing an innocent person eternally. I mean, Joseph Smith wrote in Doctrine in Covenants that people need to be that if people don't repent, they have to suffer just as Jesus did. At the end, people that didn't repent, they're going to have to suffer for their own sins. So, why why do we need Jesus? Why don't people just suffer for their own sins?
6:16 Well, so let's pull up that exact we can pull up that exact uh that exact verse that you're talking about. But I I do want to say before we get into that, what you just conceptualized is not the first time that's been conceptualized. Of course, when like there's a very clear conceptualization of that in chapter one, not Corore. Uh so Lucifer so and I'm not trying to similar idea, right?
6:48 From the very from the very beginning, the argument was this. I want everyone to be saved. Not a soul will be lost. But wasn't the idea taking taking away? Okay. So, you see the surprise on his face when he realized that unknowingly he ascribed to and almost quoted the the the proposition that Lucifer himself put forward that everyone's going to be saved, not a soul will be lost, and I will surely do it. Send me. You know what I'm saying? And so, just to help you understand like his worldview. Good to go. And so, Brando, let's get into this. All right. So, on let's just give people context, okay? April April 17th, the church after having gone through, you know, mediation that they couldn't fi find an absolute resolution for the things that they wanted John to uh comply with. Then they uh filed this lawsuit and it was a 30-page lawsuit um of a federal complaint. And then on Monday, which was the 22nd of June, John
7:54 and with his lawyers, they uh put out a 109 page answer and counter with and counter claims. Okay. Yes. And so I went through uh not all of it, but a majority of it because again, look, I'm not some lawyer guy. A lot of it was just like, what does this even mean? This is just lawyer speech. But I did find a few different parts very interesting. Now, one of the big claims is that uh from John is that the church no longer has any claim to the name Mormon, the title Mormon. And you know, there's a lot of passionate feelings on both sides. And I can definitely see some arguments made both from John's point of view and the church's point of view. But I just wanted to highlight a few things that I found particularly very interesting and then we'll get into the point where he specifically mentions this show Latter Daily Saints which I was pretty shocked by. But in point seven of his counter claims, John says
8:59 that Delin, a lifelong member of the church before being excommunicated from the church in 2015 due to the content of his Mormon stories podcast, continues today to self-identify as Mormon. So therefore, he should be able to use this this word as well if he personally self-identifies as Mormon. Right. Well, jokes's on you. We don't even identify as Mormon anymore. We we rebranded. Okay. We're members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Oh, wait. I'm realizing that this doesn't really help our lawsuit. Exactly.
9:33 That's one of the big arguments that he uses that the church has gone through extensive me measures to get rid of that identifier as something that is affiliated with official church channels and things like that. So, Brandon, you just actually helped John Dyn's case a little bit. So, well, I don't know what to say now. I'm just But but um I it is interesting that he says that though he still identifies as Mormon because I think that's one of his deceptions, right? That he he puts on the facade of I'm still a Mormon and I'm just trying to help people uh I'm trying to make the church u progress in certain ways.
10:17 Yeah. A healthier place is how he phrased it in our conversation. And he's like at the end of our conversation he said I think we both want the same thing. We just want the church to be the most healthy place as possible. And it's like, well, no, that's not actually not like our same established mission that you have. and you go about it in a very interesting way that is not very uh yeah not looking like you want to really build up the the church but your idea of making it a healthier place is to kind of help other people deconstruct their he's he's like what I would describe is he is a car mechanic which you take your vehicle to him and what he does is he's like whoa this engine's got a lot of problems takes it all apart in front of you and says look at this problem look at this problem and then has your entire engine taken apart and he says, "Well, good luck." And you're like, "Dude, you just took apart this entire engine and
11:13 obviously it was working to a certain extent cuz I was able to drive my car here, but uh you just took it apart completely and now what am I supposed to do?" and he leaves people without any really thing of substance to go off of, but just tries to take apart people's faith to the point where they're left, wow, what am I supposed to do now? Yeah, he might say he's a car mechanic, but at the end of the day, he's he's his actions and the consequences of those actions do not reflect that title that he's giving himself.
11:46 And even in that conversation we had, I was like, "So help me understand because he has tried to recreate different communities in a secular form, not a part of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." And he told me to my face that time and time and time again, it always uh devolves into swinging, drugs, and alcohol. Okay? And I brought this up to him on the show and he's like, "Yeah, well, a lot of people when they leave high demand religions, they don't want another organization to then tell them what to do." And I'm like, "Okay, dude. By their fruits, you shall know them." If the fruits of your efforts to try to create community outside of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints always devolves into families breaking up, people swinging with one another in other couples, doing drugs, drinking alcohol. You think? What do you think that uh that kind of says about your efforts if those are the fruits?
12:43 So anyways, and and just before we continue with this, you know, what I see in John Delin is a man who is very very hurt maybe and that you know whatever actions caused him to be excommunicated uh that hurt him, right? But hurt people hurt people too, right? that doesn't justify the the approach that he has. Um, but I do think it it gives me a little bit of just some compassion for him in the sense that I, you know, it's it's coming from a place of pain, but that's about the extent of my compassion because what he's you using that pain for and how he's um manifesting it and and how he's affecting other people with that pain is very very net negative.
13:38 Net negative. Net negative. Exactly. And I'm totally comfortable saying that as well. Um, and so that's why I kind of want to start off with going to this point because he's still identifying as Mormon. And what does that even mean? I guess if John Delin is saying, I know, I'm still a Mormon. It's like, okay, what even is that? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. If you get excommunicated, can legally like in a legal lawsuit like this, can are you taken out since you're taken off the church's record, can they legally say you're not actually a member of the church? So, I don't know.
14:10 Well, yeah, that's one of his arguments is because the church has tried to distance themselves from such identifier, he can say that he is Mormon. And uh yeah, it is very a deceptive tactic. Okay, these are my opinions. All right, if you disagree, articulate it in the comments. Okay. And then we go to actually go to the next uh little thing. Yeah. 19. Okay. Point 19. He says, "Even as evidenced by the church's own asserted examples of alleged consumer confusion in the complaint, no consumers are actually or likely to be confused as to the source of the Mormon Stories podcast." Whatever, man.
14:50 Oh, really? Oh, really? Okay. Now, let's just start off with one thing with the the branding, which he has since changed. Yes. But he has asserted, look, there's no way someone could actually be confused by the branding here. As we've showed before on the show, if you look up the look at the lineup of all the different church apps and uh logos and things like that, Mormon stories for someone coming in without knowing what Mormon stories is, do you think it would be reasonable? And we've had hundreds of people reach out to us and comment on our videos that we've talked about this that they were deceived by this branding and thought that it was church. We'll talk more about that pro. Okay?
15:35 And that'll come up later in this. But then not only this, but John, we have kind of a smoking gun here because I think you forgot about the conversation that you had with our boy friend of the show. Not a friend of the show. I wish he was cuz he's actually hilarious, but not for the greatest reason. Wrong ways. Yes. But Tomsters. Okay. He had a conversation in which there was a very interesting exchange in which he had with Tomsters here. And uh actually Brando, let's watch the Instagram little clip first and then uh we'll go to the actual conversation here.
16:16 But watch this. This is an how in my mind would I think ever that I was misleading people and fooling them into uh um you know into listening to Mormon stories podcast very quickly after my mission um cuz I I am a big fan of podcast. So I went to the podcast app Apple podcast typed in Mormon saw Mormon stories and I was like perfect stories about Mormons. Um, and the first one I came across that was not why I named it.
16:49 No, I maybe it was a little bit and um it it worked. Okay, pause it. All right, now go to the actual conversation. So, we're going to listen to this again just so you get it very clearly from the horse's mouth here. All right, without any music over it. This is that exchange once again. I am a big fan of podcast. So, I went to the podcast app, Apple Podcast, typed in Mormon, saw Mormon stories, and I was like, perfect, stories about Mormons.
17:18 Um, and the first one I came across, that was not why I named it. No. And I know. And and I Okay, maybe it was a little bit. And um it it worked. Um in the first episode I ever pause there. Okay. So, he jokingly says that's not why. He's like, okay, maybe it was a little bit why I named. And then what does Tomster say? It worked. It worked. Yep. Thompers admits that he was going to find a pro LDS podcast and so he typed in Mormon and then Mormon stories came up and he thinks, "Oh, stories about Mormons. This is a proddds type thing." And then John Delin admits that it is part of the reason why he named his podcast that exact name. And then Tomster says, "Well, it worked." And then he didn't slip there.
18:07 Yes. And then he goes on to say, "The first episode I watched was this one that made me very angry because obviously he found out that it wasn't proldds." And then he says he's it sent him basically down this journey of deconstructing his faith. And you know what? There are probably hundreds if not thousands of other people who would tell the same exact story. And a lot of other people who also were deceived still active like me on on my mission. They posted on Facebook and I don't think there's any intention to like target missionaries for that, but if you want missionaries to see videos you posted on Facebook and I saw Mormon stories, I was like, "Oh, this is going to be cool right away." Nope. There's this is this is bad. Yes.
18:52 And so look from your own mouth, John Delin, you say that that is part of the reason why this scenario exactly him wanting to find a pro source, then coming upon your show that is not a pro source and then being deceived and being sent down this route of deconstruction. And you say for that reason, it is part of the reason why you named it Mormon Stories. And I assume have the branding as well because he changed his branding to that blue back uh background with the light rays and stuff like that in 2022 after the church had already adopted that branding guide. Okay.
19:32 Let me ask you a question. I don't watch Mormon stories. Never have. I assume maybe you have watched some. maybe you did in research in research preparation for when you talked with him and maybe some since then. Yep. What other tactics in the in the episodes does he employ similar to these does does when he's actually conversing with people? Are there other subtle ways that he uh that the viewer might, you know, get themselves caught in a trap um as they're watching uh that that might hurt their faith? like who are the kind of people that watch that watch it and then lose their faith because of it and how does he do that? I guess is probably a very long answer.
20:14 Well, I mean if you just go to his channel, you see that he has overt series that go towards debunking what he says debunking LDS truth claims, right? Like his LDS discussions that he platforms and stuff like that. And also he just invites a ton of people on that have had negative experiences in the church and therefore go on to tell their story, right? And one of the most heartbreaking ones is an episode in which Cara Burell, another lady, she goes by Nuance Hoe. She used to be his co-host. She invites her friend on that hasn't asked all these questions yet.
20:54 And then for like an hour and a half, John just goes and throws all of this stuff on her of these like third, fourthhand accounts, even some of the most egregious things that he's saying onto her and she's like, "Wait, where is this coming from?" He's like, "Go look it up. Go look it up." And says just the wildest claims to uh shake this woman's faith. And by the end, she's just like weeping because she is completely overwhelmed by all the stuff that John's throwing at her. Okay.
21:22 But you wouldn't know that. That's where the episode is going to go if you're if you're coming into it new because you see something like this, which I don't know if you were already planning on showing this, but he puts out thumbnails that are like it's President Nelson, what to do if you have doubts. That looks like a totally 100% prochurch general conference feelgood, you know, Sunday thought. But I'm sure it's like a what to do if you have doubts. Will you leave the church or something like that?
21:54 It's so it's exactly. And so John, to answer your own questions, how in my mind when he says, "How in my mind would I ever think that I would be deceiving people to watch Mormon stories?" Well, you just barely said how exactly and why. And I mean, just these thumbnails in and of themselves. So now you may think, okay, if he changes the the branding of his thing to not be blue and copying the church, if he takes away the intellectual property of like the Christ statue and then these thumbnails and stuff, then he should be good to go. And look, from a legal perspective, I don't I don't know if the church actually has a leg to stand on when it when they are trying to get him to not use um the word Mormon, right? What I do know is that there's a lot of people that have also been deceived. Now, when it comes to uh people sharing their stories of deception, one thing actually when he changed his logo to this new thing that has since been, you know,
22:56 changed to an orange orange uh image. If you zoom in on those comments, right, this is December 11th, 2022. It's a little grainy, but I can read it. It's Yeah, read it. I feel like I've seen that color palette somewhere before. The church's logo and font, too. If the background is blue, then the stories are true. It's giving LDS logo vibes. I love the color. It looks like the Book of Mormon. So, you know, his own followers are saying, "Look, yeah, like we see what you're doing, John. You're being real sneaky." Okay. Now, one thing that I read in his uh counter claims and rebuttals actually kind of made me feel like, dang, is the church being uh dishonest here? Now, Brando, if you go to uh the the counter claims. Yes. Okay.
23:47 So, in the church's law, I'll just Is this where we had our faith crisis? Yeah, a little bit of our faith crisis. Okay. So, in point 242 of John's uh rebuttal says, "In addition to the press release, the church's allegations of confusion in the complaint are also deceptive and misleading. At paragraph 54 of the complaint, the church identified 15 online comments and falsely characterized them to be comments on the Mormon stories Facebook and YouTube pages." Okay. So then I was like, "Huh, well, let me go to the church's complaint and go to paragraph 54 like he's indicating here." So if you go down to paragraph 54, Brando, right here.
24:30 Okay. It says, "Mormon stories unauthorized use of defendants marks the Christ symbol and light rays design and other indicia, I think that's something that indicates something." Yeah. has caused actual confusion in the marketplace as illustrated by the following comments on the Mormon Stories Facebook and YouTube pages. So, I was like, "Huh?" And then it has like 15 different comments right there.
24:55 And a few of them I like thought I recognized, but then I was like, "What?" And then you'll find out that it's good reason why I should have recognized them. But go back to uh John's thing. He continues and he says, "The church was aware that this was a false statement at the time of the complaint was filed. That during the party's negotiations, the church and defendants discussed 33 comments selected by the church, including the 15 identified in the complaint. On April 8th, 2026, defendants informed the church that the vast majority of the selected comments were not posted on any Mormon Story social media pages and that most were comments made recently in response videos from supporters of the church discussing discussing and celebrating the church's current trademark enforcement efforts against defendants.
25:42 Okay. So then he said basically he's saying look this phrasiology here where they are pointing towards comments on the Mormon stories Facebook and YouTube pages. Um he's saying that look they knew that these weren't comments that were actually made on the pages and Facebook which as you'll see I can totally understand why he thought that. Yes. Because then he goes on to say, "Look, only six of the comments that you showed in paragraph 54 were actually made on our Facebook and YouTube pages." Okay. And then uh it says, "On information and belief, the church chose not to provide the links from which the comments were obtained in paragraph 54 in order to conceal its misrepresentation in the complaint." And then uh if you scroll down one more, it says uh scroll up a tiny bit. All right.
26:35 It says, "Five of the 15 comments in paragraph 54 of the complaint were made in November 2025 in response to a YouTube video posted by a podcaster using the name Latter Daily Saints entitled LDS Church Exposes Most Deceptive Anti- Mormon and Campbell's BP Gross Confession." The Campbell story was crazy, but yeah, it was. And it said, "This video also reported on and celebrated the recent news of the church accusing defendants of trademark infringement. These five comments were selected from 1143 comments posted in the response to the video. So I'm like, all right, is this true? So go back to the comments of uh that the church included. And so I went through and I copied and pasted in our comment search and I found that yes indeed that very first one actually uh is from our video.
27:27 It says, "I stumbled upon the Mormon Stories podcast thinking it was a church affiliated. It was quick quickly evident how anti- it was. And then uh down the third one, it says, "I was searching for LDS content not too long ago and ran across this and was deceived. I listened to half of one podcast and realized what it was, never listened again." And then three more from that list. Okay. So, I was like, first off, I was like, I we got some fans uh in Kurt Makoni, I guess, that are going towards to our videos to find things to put into their federal complaint lawsuit.
28:04 Yeah. Yeah. Which is baller or I guess so. Maybe a little bit. I don't I don't know. You don't like lawyers? I'm indifferent to it. Okay. Um but then I was like, huh? Scroll up to the top again where they say these comments come from and it says illustrated by the following comments on the Mormon stories Facebook and YouTube pages. Now you can read that one of two ways which okay maybe I can give some ground here. You can read that as oh these are comments that were made specifically like on the Mormon Stories Facebook page or their YouTube channels.
28:40 Comments on their videos. Okay. Or you could look at that and see, oh, these were comments made on or another word about the Mormon stories Facebook and YouTube. Somebody commenting on something. Yeah. You know, like if I were to say, hey, you watched the World Cup game yesterday. What are your comments on the way that the uh the referee refed the game? Yeah. And so you sense, oh, I went to the the World Cups page and I commented on this or oh, these are my comments on slashabout said situation.
29:14 Yeah. Right. So we thought they were maybe lying. So I was like, huh. But then I mean if you read it and it says illustrated by the following comments on the Mormon stories Facebook and YouTube pages. So comments about them and which in our video we made comments about it as well. And then people shared their experiences of being deceived, thinking that Mormon Stories podcast was a proDS source and then finding out quickly that no, it is not. Not without being exposed to the anti-material first.
29:45 Yeah. Yeah. And when I say faith crisis, I just mean like a few hours before we filmed this, we were like kind of freaking out like why this is a straight up lie. Like some of these comments are not on Mormon stories. Uh, but when you frame it in the on or about, that makes total sense. And it and it makes sense why maybe a lawyer would would use that word. Um, I don't know. It's maybe it's a little bit more dignified, a little bit more professional to say on, comment on, but it does it is very confusing.
30:19 Yes. So, I mean, you could say comments on or about or comments about the Mormon Stories Facebook and YouTube pages, but nonetheless, the lawyers that put this together, they used five comments from our video of the 15. Um, and then some from a Jasmine Rapoli video. And yeah, so safe to say that there are, and here's the thing, there's probably, like you said, thousands more, I would say thousands more that stumbled upon Mormon Stories podcast thinking that it was pro LBDS, just like Tomsters did, on your show, John. And just like you said, it's part of the reason why you named it and have branded it that way.
31:07 Can I show you something funny really quick? Yes, please. Uh, I had a buddy create by the domain Morm stories in case John tries to change it again to not be Mormon, but maybe likes Mormon. And here's what happens when when you search it. Warm stories.com. Oh my gosh. Just a little just a little prank there. I'm trolling. So, here's the thing. Now, that can be this is an example of just like some verbiage here because then in John's rebuttal, he goes into how the church is being so dishonest with this. Whereas if you just read it as these are comments on slashabout uh his page and his YouTube channel, then it does make sense because these are comments talking on the uh the Mormon stories. And so, um, then in mediation, the church, they're like, "Look, we just want you to, uh, add a disclaimer at the beginning of your episodes, just like we do here on Latter Daily Saints, saying, "Look, we are not affiliated with the church in any official capacity. We are not official representatives of the Church of Jesus
32:31 Christ Latter Day Saints." Now, he from his point of view, he's saying that they asked him to not only do that at the beginning in a verbal or on the screen form, but every 15 minutes. Now, I haven't heard any other side of this of that story with those specific details other than coming from John. So, I don't know. Is that not in I mean, is that not in his his rebuttal? Yes, he puts that in there, but it's not corroborated by the church also saying because in their laws uh their complaint, they're saying we asked him to put in a disclaimer at the beginning of his videos, but it doesn't talk about the every 15 minutes and we don't know what kind of verbiage they may have asked him to use like say say that you're extremely say that you're not a member of the church anymore. We don't know any details. But I mean if it is every 15 minutes that seems a little excessive if that is true. And so I don't really know. I mean if it's like a graphic on the screen I
33:29 don't think that's excessive. But if it's like a verbal like you have to place this every 15 minutes then that's that's pretty excessive. But nonetheless at the beginning we're very pro LDS and we do it as well. And so I don't know. I don't think that's very hard to do that verbally at the beginning or um just like I mean Jacob Hansen has a disclaimer on his videos as well that pops up that he's not affiliated with the church officially.
33:54 And so then he says in his rebuttal at part 234 it says because of the lack of confusion during two decades of the Mormon stories podcast defendants did not feel believe a disclaimer of any kind was necessary. However, defendants adopted the forgoing disclaimers in a good faith spirit of compromise and cooperation at the church's request. So, just also as well as we have like a written disclaimer saying that we are not official representatives of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the description of our YouTube channel. He also put that in the description of his YouTube channel, but didn't want to put it at the beginning of his videos. And so again, there is a lot of confusion and many people have shared their experiences with this confusion, John, just as Tom Sears once again. I'm going to freaking beat this like a dead horse. Okay. Did on your show and then you confirmed that that is one of the reasons why that you named it
34:54 and branded it Mormon Stories. So people like to thumpsters looking for pro- sources would stumble upon yours that it's very not pro- source and start their deconstruction process. Okay, you confirmed it. All right. And so again, there's 109 pages here in this uh this counter claims and answers and rebuttals. And so there's a lot to it. again not having like a legal background on all the intricacies of intellectual property and things I don't feel confident to comment on all the things saying that no we can use the word Mormon. Um I'm curious to see anyone with those type of uh experiences and backgrounds with intellectual property rights what you know further light and knowledge you can give to us. would love to have someone that is uh is uh versed in that world to come on the show. We'd love to have you. So, reach out to us at latter daily saintsgmail.com.
35:54 Uh but what I do know is one thing is didn't you know that Stick of Joseph almost got sued? I I feel like you've almost been sued over a hundred times. We've been threatened. We were threatened. Not that much. It's not that controversial. We were threatened with a lawsuit early on uh from some people that claimed that they actually had uh copyright rights to the word the the phrase the stick of Joseph which is found in Ezekiel 37. And so if you can copyright a Bible verse that's news to me. Um and so obviously their claims were unfounded. I don't know if it's a similar situation with this of using the, you know, word Mormon um on his channel. I'm very curious to see how this all plays out.
36:48 But nonetheless, there are some deceptive things in John's efforts to rebut these claims of the church. Just like we showed the smoking gun of John admitting that is one of the reasons why he chose to brand and name his channel the way he has. And so let me ask you one more question here. Um there is there is a perception uh on the internet among ex Mormons and even so one thing we didn't mention was that the Washington Post picked this story up.
37:22 It's it's actually getting a lot bigger a lot more attention from uh national publications as well. Um there is a perception that you know the church is exercising maybe unrighteous dominion or you know that their their big power to stomp on on an independent creator to get their way. Do you think there's any fair just as a devil's advocate, do you think there's any fairness or accuracy to that statement or do you think if people were to look more into it, they would see that no, clearly there is some grounds for the church to be doing this?
38:00 Yeah, that's a great question. So, I think a couple things can be true at once. One, have people been deceived by John Delin? And has he knowingly branded his show in such a way that people would be deceived like we've already showed you? Yes, that is true. Has he since changed his, you know, branding of being very closely aligned with the church's branding to something different now to the point where, you know, it's not reasonable to say that people can be deceived? Possibly.
38:32 Legally, in legal terms, could it still be legal for John John Delin to use the word Mormon in Mormon stories? Yes, that could be true. Could the church be using um you know their pretty much unlimited resources of pursuing this lawsuit uh to say that John can't use the word Mormon um and ultimately John doesn't have the resources to do so so therefore he can't fight back. That could be true honestly because again speaking from a le not having this legal knowledge of do they have a leg to stand on when they say he can't use the word Mormon or not. If they don't have a leg to stand on then I can totally see and empathize with people's arguments in that in that uh perspective. And I think everyone can agree that the more business side of the church, maybe the the lawyer, legal side of the church, it's not like every decision made there is inspired by God. I think that's a perception that if people have, they need to stop because it's not like every decision is inspired by God or always coming from from the prophet.
39:49 like like I don't think it'd be accurate to say the prophet was inspired to tell the legal team to sue John Delin or anything like that. I'm not saying the lawsuit is wrong at all. Um but uh I think I think we can all agree that you know maybe there could be there could be mistakes that are made or or things that might not be 100% uh you know fair toward John. I think it's to add that nuance is just I think necessary.
40:20 Yeah. Because at this point in time, let's say they do have a leg to stand on. John can't be using the word Mormon as he is and he's in the wrong and therefore he should change it. Great. So the church pursuing this lawsuit and specifically kind of hinging on that uh claim is is totally righteous, right? Let's say they don't have and again I don't have the legal knowledge from intellectual property laws and everything like that. But let's say someone that does have that and sees that no they don't have a leg to stand on and they're just kind of pushing this forward, dragging it along to then, you know, squeeze out the resources of John Delin. I mean, is that a possibility?
41:03 Maybe. And I I'm I'm not, you know, gonna be so biased to the point where I am gonna say no, that's not even a possibility at all. Maybe it is. I don't have the legal knowledge or knowhow to uh to make that assertion one way or the other. But is that possible? Yes. What I do know is, like I said, two things can be true at once. John has, as we've seen, knowingly deceived people. And a lot of people have uh you know deconstructed their faith catalyzed by his content that poses uh as something that is pro but is not and also could in legal terms he still be able to use the word Mormon in Mormon stories. Yeah.
41:46 Needless to say the story is not over yet. It's not over. This is a saga that will continue. We'll see. But this is just the most recent update development. development. Okay, 109 pages and we'll link everything in the description so that you can go and read the church's complaint and John Delins as well and uh come out with your own conclusions. Again, if you're someone that has that uh uh specialized knowledge on intellectual property laws, would love to hear. So, moving on to a daily dose of Babylon, which is a segment that we have on the show where it's not it's something happening in the world or in pop culture that is not directly affiliated with the Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints, but I look I find it and I I feel I want to show it on the show and run my mouth on the internet about it. Just a meme.
42:36 Okay. So, JD Vance's wife, which her name is Usha. Usha. Usha. I I believe so. Like Usher, but like Usha, sure. If that's how you want to play. Yeah. Yeah. Usha. So, she has Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I see. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Usha Asha. I don't know. I don't know. But basically, she came out and she has this like friendly kid-friendly like reading time podcast. Okay. and she has as a guest on her show her husband, right? Which they're married, they have children together.
43:13 You would think that, you know, they would have a lot of chemistry. Well, this is the exchange that happened when she introduced him on the channel. Okay, that's right. Today's special reader is my husband, Vice President of the United States, JD Vance. Thanks for joining us today, honey. Of course. Good to see you. No, no. Gosh. Oh, that's creepy. I can't watch I can't watch. Wait, wait. Play it again. Wait.
43:45 Jamie Vance, thanks for joining us today, honey. Of course. Good to see you. Oh, okay. Today's So, first off, maybe she's just not good on camera. Maybe she's just a little robotic, right, bro? Maybe he's not good on camera, man. Yeah. Oh, wait. I guess he's the vice president. He's on camera a lot. He's on camera a lot. But like just the like weird like aggressive pat on her leg. He's like, "Thanks for having me."
44:14 And it's just like and then people have pointed out online which you know, you know the whole controversy when he was like hugging Erica Kirk on stage and she like put his fingers through her his hair and stuff. Yeah. So, comparing those two, you know, chemistry moments of physical touch, it was uh hilarious to say the least. Have you ever considered having your wife on the podcast?
44:39 I have. I have. And uh I've talked to her and she would like to. I just think the the subject the golden subject to have her on. Um we'll do like an evergreen like dating thing. Maybe we'll bring both our wives or something. Uh have you ever recorded anything with with her? Uh yeah, back in the early days of the Sick of Joseph, we did a live stream with both Hayden and I's uh wives, Grace and Savannah.
45:04 I've never seen that. Yes. And was it as awkward as this and No, it was great chemistry all around. It was a phenomenal time. So anyways, uh just wanted to I would love to get your thoughts in the comments on that exchange there cuz that hurt my body. They're great people. They're great people. It's just cringe. All right. I'm sure they are. I've never met them personally. Have you?
45:28 Well, Joy Joy Bar from The View said JD Vance is a great person and if she thinks that then I'm sure he is. My perception of it is that he's a good guy, but that you know could it's politics as well. So, we'll see. But, um anyways, would love to hear your thoughts on that. Now, we're going to cap off today's episode with uh some comments from yesterday's video that we did on the religion business series that was made by Nathan Appfell uh that is promoted on the Tucker Carlson network of how agre the it misrepresents the church in one of the most egregious ways I've ever seen. But some of the top comments that I loved uh were from the king who is an avid watcher in the comments. We love you, bro. Love the king.
46:19 Or women. It's It's a It's an anonymous account. So, The King says, "Imagine creating a $9 payw wall to expose fraudsters." Fair, maybe. Which here's the thing I want to say again. 95% of the series I loved because it shows how guys like Kenneth Copelan take tithing money, build million-dollar mansions, and buy, you know, multi-million dollar private planes and air strips, and then don't do the things they're they say they'll do for the community. you just don't like when it hurts your little Mormon feelings.
46:53 Things need to be called out when they're incorrect, but a lot of the stuff is great work. So, um, but then another comment comes from Alaska Catholic. Like I said, visitors are welcome and we have a growing non-member audience of Catholics and evangelicals and they say, "I'm not a member, but I have the utmost respect for all my LDS brothers and sisters. I've always uh I'm always impressed by how they take care of not only LDS members but all the poor. That's another thing that he didn't mention in his thing. You don't have to be a member of the church to go to a bishop and ask for welfare and to ask for assistance. Like you don't even have to be a member. And so it's like, bro, you're not even talking about any of the humanitarian efforts that the church has engaged in of over the last two and a half years over $3 billion worth of stuff. Okay.
47:45 And thank you for focusing on the fruits rather than theological differences. Oh yeah, the Alaskan Catholic. Yeah. Thank you. That's awesome. And then the next awesome comment was, "Wait, isn't this the same guy that said that members have to give their bishops their bank statements? That guy is so hilariously misinformed. Comedy gold." Yes, this is the same guy. And honestly, um should we just pull it up, Brando?
48:13 Yeah. Is that okay? The clip of uh him saying that? Yes, I actually have it pulled up here. Um, yeah. I just I think maybe he heard some anecdotes from obscure members of the church where maybe a bishop did that one time. Like I could see that maybe happening in a ward, an obscure ward in like Nebraska or something where a bishop asks for a bank statement and then that's passed through the grapevine. But that does not happen.
48:46 Yeah. No, it does not happen. And if that has happened to you, comment down below because I would love to hear if that actually happened. So Brandon, pull that up and go to 1 hour 15 minutes and 26 seconds. How do they know? Oh, they keep they look at your bank bank statements. They turn in their bank statements. Every year at the LDS church, you have to go in and I can't remember what it's called, but it's a meeting with your bishop and you have to discuss your finances and he says, "Have you been a full tithe payer?" And if you haven't, it's literally your doc. Okay, you can pause there.
49:19 So, he's literally going around saying to Shawn Ryan, "How do how do they know if they're a full Todd Bear?" You have to show your bank statements. Your bishop goes through your bank statements. Where are you getting your information, bro? Because I'll tell you, if your information source is that lady, whatever her name from Bad Mormon, the uh Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, Heather Gay. Oh, yeah.
49:41 Who wrote Bad Mormon. If that's your source, bro, may God help you. All right. Hey, God help you. And look, gosh dang. Gosh dang, bro. Some rage batty topics these last two days, dude. Well, people are loving it. Thank you guys for watching. It means a lot. The support for the channel has been very significant and we need to thank you more often for being here. Yeah, we love engaging with you guys in the comments section and uh yeah, let us know what you guys think about this stuff. But remember, if you're not looking at the world through a restored gospel lens, you're only getting half the story. God bless you.